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Comment by Rebecca Atkinson-Lord on August 13, 2009 at 4:13

Really interested to read the discussion about scratch as a tool for development because we've been talking about this recently at Arch 468. We wanted to provide the sort of development support and structure that's available for new straight plays to musicals as well. We just couldn't think of anyone that's routinely applying the same kind of attention to the development of new musicals as theatres like (for example) the Royal Court apply to new plays - although please do tell me if I'm wrong! We're about to launch a new initiative offering development time and resources to five new musicals or operas as a way of moving beyond the 'scratch' stage into something more rigorous and detailed. It's a new project for us so we're not quite sure what's going to happen - will keep you posted.

Comment by Sybil Crouch on August 2, 2009 at 0:46

Watch out for "The Bankrupt Bride" a new musical by Theatr Na Nog - co-produced by Taliesin and premiering here in October....

Comment by National Theatre Wales on August 1, 2009 at 2:22

Thanks Dafydd. Yes, I've always been a bit agnostic about 'scratch' in general. As with any other process it favours a particular kind of work. Battersea Arts Centre are doing a whole season based around the idea of Scratch this autumn, so it will be interesting to see what happens with that kind of focus in the place that invented the term. I guess I was interested in particular in the scratch and the musical because so much musical theatre development seems to get lost in weighty development costs, and often seems to be designed by committee in the end. The key is to sharpen the unique individual voice while making sure that the rhythm of the whole works for the audience. What would your ideal development process look like?

Comment by Dafydd Huw James on August 1, 2009 at 2:02

In response to John's question about 'scratching', these events certainly have a benefit. They can be a fantastic opportunity to get first ideas out there. However, they can equally be a painstaking and frustrating process. Sometimes the vision of the artist is far beyond what's possible to present in the scratch. The 'feedback' then is not necessarily useful and in fact can sometimes just confuse - you need to take it with a pinch of salt! So what I suppose I am saying is that scratches are useful to explore an inkling of an idea, but the question is, how do we meet the needs of artists who's ideas are more fully realised?

Comment by Peter Cox MBE on July 29, 2009 at 19:03

In my earlier days I worked with various small companies who were interested in developing musicals with me. On each occasion that we went for funding to The Arts Council of England (as it was then) we were met by very closed minds. The Drama department wouldn't touch us because of the Music element. We were told to go to the Music Department. Guess what? The Music Department wouldn't touch us because of the Drama. Guess what? They suggested we go to the Drama Department. When we suggested that these were exciting opportunities for collaborative working and crossover between departments we were essentially shown the door! In the end we gave up and sourced funding elsewhere.

Our audience's access to and consumption of music these days is huge and for that reason alone it makes total sense to be exploring the musical form in our theatre.

Comment by Ace McCarron on July 29, 2009 at 12:36

I used to do a lot of work at the Bridewell in London, which produced what seemed like the bulk of new musicals in London. At the point when they were obliged to reconsider their funding, due to a rent hike, they applied for Arts Council funding, to find that with no competition as a regular producer of musicals, they had a cast-iron case for funding. Unfortunately the financial fuse blew before this could be installed, and I don't know who, if anyone, is enjoying regular subsidy for this kind of work in its place. My point is that there seems to be a gap between the acknowledgement that Musical Theatre is a valid and important branch of drama, and the existance of organisations devoted to its innovative development. I think the main opportunity afforded by the strong Welsh vocal tradition is in the abundance of musical skill, experience and talent evident amongst the pool of actors resident in Wales. It seems foolish not to embed the ambition to commission, develop and produce musical theatre into the core activity of the NTW.

Comment by National Theatre Wales on July 29, 2009 at 0:15

Thanks Dafydd. Very useful thinking. What do you make of the 'scratch'/Battersea Arts Centre approach for music theatre. It's how 'Jerry Springer the Opera' was developed of course - step by step, with relatively little expenditure upfront. Very different to the expensive musical try-outs. It's a different approach to creating a structure - and I wonder if it is problematic of helpful for composers?

Comment by Dafydd Huw James on July 27, 2009 at 23:29

So glad that this conversation is being had. As a theatre composer I am well aware of the problems of getting new musical work off the ground. The problem is always financial and trying to get a new show up and running is a daunting prospect, especially for emerging talent. For a long-time musical theatre's commercial success was dependent on whether or not it had a big name, was an adaptation of a book or was a greatest hits album! With Spring Awakening it seemed things were changing, though of course this has stopped running.

Developing it from the grass-roots up is also a laborious journey. Recently I was funded by the Welsh Arts Council to develop a new piece 'Geek Tragedy' for the Incubator project at the WMC. Though I had been working around this idea with my collaborator Ben Lewis for a while, this was the first opportunity to get it on its feet. But this was just the first stage, we are now looking to develop it further and are looking at various financial avenues to facilitate the project - state funding, commercial and venue support. I was rather disappointed to see that the theatre in wales website had reviewed this as a show, not recognising at all where we were at in its process as creators. This kind of intervention could be damaging (Luckily, it wasn't) . The whole point of 'incubator' is that it is a safe place to try out new work, before it's hatched as it were.

There are some great initiatives in the UK at the moment such as Musical Theatre Matters and Mercury musical developments. It would be fantastic to develop something along those lines which recognised the time and effort needed to produce new work.

As for form. Personally,I'm all for exploring new ways of doing musical theatre. Geek Tragedy for example is intended as a wholly immersive experience with actor-musicians. It's mainly populated by young people (not necessarily schooled in musical-theatre vibratto tradition which often makes me disengage with a performer - why oh why does musical theatre continually churn out the same style of singing?)

For me, the visceral connection I feel in listening to music is all too-often lost in the distance created by spectacle. I'm interested in how we can make music-theatre a visceral experience.

The musical comedy form is of course fantastic - Singing in the Rain to name but one is a particular favourite. I don't underestimate its power and appeal, but at the same time I'm not necessarily interested in working in what for me would be an adopted form - generated by a different economy and cultural landscape. We have our own musical traditions in Wales. How might they evolve into a contemporary notion of Musical/Music theatre?

PS - I thought Once was fantastic too - it brought intimacy back to the form.

Comment by National Theatre Wales on July 27, 2009 at 12:53

Cheers Guy and Peter. I look forward to Bartered Bride.
A slightly provocative question: When we talk about music theatre and plays with music, are we in danger of underestimating the power and appeal of the 'musical comedy' form, pioneered in 20th Century America - a specific and very vibrant form of theatre in its own right? The form isn't just about good music in theatre, but a combination of elements that have a real history and effectiveness?

Comment by Guy O'Donnell on July 26, 2009 at 21:09

Have recently watched the film 'Once' which was billed as a modern day musical. It was so subtle and totally absorbing that if I hadn't read on the cover it was a musical I don't think I would have realised I was watching one. It was brilliant. The theatrical equivalent of something like 'Once' would be interesting.

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