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Comment by National Theatre Wales on February 19, 2014 at 11:36

I like 'the guardian of the idea' a lot!

Comment by Kelsey Richards on February 19, 2014 at 5:45

I agree that being asked "good" questions" or the "right" questions has often helped my work, and wholeheartedly agree that we should be helping each other through the writing process. Happy to offer my support as a Reader to offer notes/constructive criticism and feedback if a group does materialise in the future.

(Or even if it doesn't, I suppose this is me offering it generally to the group!)

Comment by Matt Ball on February 19, 2014 at 4:22

The first time anyone tried to explain to me what a dramatug was they described it as "the guardian of the idea", and I've found that a helpful way to think of the role. For me it's someone whose focus is on the needs of the piece, and acts as interlocutor for the audience.

The times I've found them most useful is when they ask the difficult questions, or throw something into the mix that you hadn't thought about. Whether their background is as a writer, director, designer, producer or academic shouldn't matter, as they're not there to write or direct the piece but to help make it the best it can be. Not every play or performance needs one, but how many times do we go to see shows and come out frustrated by the lack of clarity or bravery? Sometimes a dramaturg could help fix those problem.

However as the old adage goes, you cant polish a turd - for that you need a dramaturd (sorry).

Comment by Kevin Johnson on February 19, 2014 at 2:37

Reading this forum it seems that there are various definitions of both what a 'Dramaturg' is and what people want it to be.

I would suggest that the best option here might be a 'group' model, consisting not only of fellow writers (of all sorts) but perhaps also other theatre professionals, such as lighting, sound, costume, etc which would give a more rounded input into any possible problems.

Any new writer could also request a more private mentoring if they wished, first attending a group session to see who they 'click' with. Rules of the group could be worked out as you go along, the only essential one being that they must be user friendly.

 

I also loved Mr Cash and his version of 'Hurt', an amazing track.

 

And perhaps we could use a 'Help' of Dramaturgs?

 

 

 

Comment by Phillip Morris on February 19, 2014 at 2:25

Tim's point about training/workshops and occasional get-togethers is a crucial one, because the relationship between dramaturg(e) and playwright has the potential to be a destructive one (and in any case will be utterly unique to each project) so a common understanding of how a dramaturg(e) should/could function/help is desirable. It seems also that writers will require some assurances that the dramaturg(e)won't simply act as yet another gate-keeper in the development process, someone that they feel they have to 'please'. It should feel like the process is an opportunity to enrich a text that is already, or very nearly working, with even greater potential. 

This help should be provided by someone who understands the courage it requires to open up your heart and veins onto a blank page for public scrutiny, but that can be anyone with a creative background not only playwrights. A good playwright might not be to facilitate constructive feedback from a workshop session or script reading.

Thought should also be given to helping young playwrights (14+) who will be inspired by great ideas but will most probably be lacking in craft - again no doctrine to be espoused but experience shared by the dramaturg(e).

 

Comment by Lisa Parry on February 19, 2014 at 2:13

I love that Johnny Cash point! (And, um, Johnny Cash...) I had a really brilliant experience with a dramaturg in NYC who came at the script with a completely different take and from an Australian background which really pushed and challenged me. His aesthetics were very different and I love what came out of it.

My worry is now that there are a lot of university courses offering PhDs and MPhils in dramaturgy and producing professional dramaturgs along the German model. This is personal experience so shouldn't really use it as a sweeping statement, but something never quite meshed. It was very theoretical and nice but of no help when it came to production as such.

I guess it does very much depend on how to define the word and also doing it on a one-by-one basis, depending on what the writer needs. Could be really exciting.

Comment by National Theatre Wales on February 19, 2014 at 1:56

These are great and thought-provoking contributions.  The image of Johnny Cash and the Beastie Boys is surely a good one for us to keep in mind as we proceed!

Lisa, your distinction between Dramaturg (I'm resisting the extra 'e' Phil and Terry!) and Playwright is useful as it begs the question of who we are asking to be a dramaturg (if indeed we keep this word, and it would be great to hear thoughts on Terry's suggestions).  I think in my starting question I was assuming that the potential group of NTW dramaturgs would mainly or wholly be playwrights - supporting other playwrights.  This tends to be the case with dramaturgs in the UK and America, though of course much dramaturgy is done by directors working on new plays. In Europe of course the dramaturg is more a Associate Director/Researcher role....  Anyway, I was thinking mainly of playwrights supporting other playwrights.  (But now I'm thinking of the Beastie Boys instead...)

Comment by Phillip Morris on February 19, 2014 at 1:47

We might also think of dramaturgy in bolder and perhaps more expansive terms than those raised thus far in this conversation - although Kaite's notion of a group of dramaturges focused on the development of individual projects makes the most sense for NTW, and seems the most practical way of proceeding in the short to mid term.

I think the question of pairing a dramaturge with a playwright is quite a nuanced one, as it is not necessarily one of matching similar interests and/or  approaches. A dramaturge must be sympathetic to the aims and problems of the writer, but it may be more useful (if only in certain instances) for that writer to be questioned about certain writing decisions by someone who does not share a similar approach or aesthetic. Occasionally great art emerges from collaborators with apparently opposing aesthetics, the late Johnny Cash records made with Beastie Boys producer Rick Rubin for example. Those records are clearly the work of Cash, but Rubin seems to have posed radical questions about the particular 'sound' required for each song, which seems only to have reinvigorated the artist.

There is a slight danger of perceiving a dramaturge as somewhat like a father in a delivery room - someone charged  with merely reminding the person doing the hard work to breathe and remain calm. A dramaturge might also share in the research part of the development process, which is not to say that the playwright should not be the final arbiter as to what material goes into a play, but rather that, in certain instances, the dramaturge could also work to provide some additional resources for the play. This approach would only work in the case of literary adaptations or documentary plays, but it is a way of envisaging an occasionally creative and proactive role for the dramaturge. In the world of opera dramaturges often work at the other end of the process, disseminating material by which an audience is given some background that helps to contextualize the play for them.

I would be happy to join a bank of dramaturges charged only with facilitating the development of new projects - god knows the job of the writer is a lonely one - and maybe these other conceptions of dramaturges are for a later conversation. Or for another company with a specific focus on new writing.  But I'd close, for now, with another rock metaphor for the dramaturge, and that is Brian Eno's work in early Roxy Music. Eno was not the best musician in the group, and was not its primary creative force, but his contribution did provide Roxy Music with additional musical layers/textures. He brought new ideas that made their music sound more interesting.

While I agree with others here that the position of a permanent Literary Manager can offset its benefits with limitations - the notion of having one (or more) people within a creative team, tasked with questioning, listening, suggesting and enthusing without having to consider the logistical and production challenges faced by producers and directors is an attractive one.

Comment by Lisa Parry on February 19, 2014 at 0:58

I've often thought I'd like to speak to a particular writer when writing a play as opposed to a dramaturg. I do that informally sometimes - it could be chatting through one section, and a playwright's take is often what I need. Sometimes much more so than a dramaturg (I've worked with a few now). Also there's support around the writing process itself that only another writer can offer. Would it be possible to maybe have a bank of playwrights other playwrights could maybe call on as well/instead of a dramaturg project? Sometimes I worry that with the emphasis on dramaturgy/helping the writer, it decentralises the writer from the writing process and you end up writing to please. I know that depends on the dramaturg but I sometimes think it's subconscious and the piece can go astray a bit. Maybe an emphasis on mentoring through a project sometimes would be what's needed as opposed to simply having a dramaturg bank.  

Comment by National Theatre Wales on February 19, 2014 at 0:53

That's precisely the question I'm asking Tim!  And the majority of the answers so far have talked about flexibility and open-ness about who the dramaturg would be. I think that your suggestion about bringing together a group is worth pursuing though.  In some ways it could lead to more flexibility (however counter-intuitive that might seem), as in curating the group questions about a variety of approaches would need to be asked.  And the group could change annually.  I do also like the idea that the group could meet to discuss what dramaturgy is or can be here in Wales. But I'm sure none of us would want that to become an exclusive, behind-closed-doors conversation.

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